Is anyone here nervous to have this conversation?
Yes, Always. Always. Slightly. Why?
It always feels like it's not possible to do it
all the time or to get it right.
Yeah, there's a lot of anxiety around this
because it's the hardest topic to talk about.
And I know that every single word I choose has
the potential to hurt someone I love.
It's one of the hardest conversations to have.
And yet these four women,
two Jewish and two Muslim Americans,
agreed to do it, to sit down together in partnership
with an interfaith group called New Ground and talk face
to face about the war in Israel and Gaza.
So let's go around in a circle and have each
of you tell me an adjective
to describe how you've been feeling the past two months.
Shattered,
Lonely.
In deep pain,
Nauseous. Sick to your stomach,
truly all the time.
It's hard to eat while it's
hard to sleep. I have an 8 year old daughter.
Just holding her brings me to tears,
just a reminder of the fragility of life
and what we have and what we love.
Sumaya Abu Baker is a Yemeni American,
Aziza Hassan a Palestinian American,
both Muslim. Sitting across is Rabbi Tova Leibovic Douglas and
Andrea Hodas,
both Jewish, A table divided by faith but bonded over
a shared hope for peace.
Were any of you surprised by the attacks on October
7th?
I would say I was very surprised and still am
surprised by October 7th.
And still, I don't know why I still surprised by
the reaction to October 7th.
They've been watching what's been going on in the West
Bank
with settler violence and with the IVF,
and I could see that
something was going to blow up
and I but I didn't have any idea it was
going to be what it was.
I felt like I was
punched in the gut. Like things have been mounting over
time for a really long time,
and that's part of why it's so important to find
a way through this.
One thing the women do agree on is the feeling
that they're forced to choose a side.
My people are the Jewish people,
but also I I see the children in Gaza,
I see the people in Palestine,
and I feel their pain as well.
And the question is, can we hold the multiple truths
and can we feel each other's pain?
Even saying this out loud,
am I going to be shunned,
cancelled from people in my life
For saying what? Just that,
that I care about all people.
Andrea do you feel like there's a place
or space to critique Israel?
Depends on what arena you're in.
The world right now is is asking us to step
into a 0 sum identities and and that is really
dangerous.
I think this is one of the things that
that I'm finding hardest as we were getting to a
place where I think Jews were really ready to listen
to Palestinian narratives.
And I wanted, I wanted that so much
because I know that it's what Jews need.
Also, I couldn't agree more that when
trying to understand is different than justifying,
it's trying to understand. But finding understanding is harder when
even words hold different meanings for different people.
Take, for instance, just the word Israel.
Israel is a lot of things to me.
I see the creation of Israel as a trauma response
to real trauma. What I'm grappling with
is that Israeli and Jewish aspirations for safety
do not have to come at the cost of the
oppression and subjugation of another people.
And the aspirations for safety and dignity that the Palestinian
peoples aspire for themselves cannot come at the cost
of the oppression and subjugation of another people.
When I think of Israel,
I really think of my grandparents because they
they survived the Holocaust and they moved to
Mandate Palestine and they helped start the state of Israel.
It's what saved them and I know it's what saved
many Jewish people.
When it comes to media coverage,
Aziza tells us she thinks coverage has often been skewed
in support of Israel.
What really strikes me is
I've been seeing images of hostages and hearing stories about
their families,
and the part that really feels like it's missing on
the coverage piece is
Palestinians don't have names. I mean,
maybe they have a name.
Maybe sometimes there's a there's a maybe an age or
maybe an occupation,
but the stories of those people are totally missing.
We then move on to the protests taking over college
campuses and one chant often heard at pro Palestinian rallies.
When I first heard it,
it meant that people are OK with
Israel not existing. If I'm being honest,
I I wish it wasn't the chant being chanted because
I think
it's quite triggering to hear and I think a lot
of people don't know what it means.
But for Aziza, who told us she does not use
that chant,
it's about understanding that it's her
people's homeland too. From the river to the sea,
All should be free
and
but all should be seen.
That chant works for me.
I just want to like share that with you.
Like I
so value you and appreciate you and
feel love for you and see you specifically want to
say that to you too.
Through this conversation, a moment of compassion and understanding.
We can all cry despite different faiths and different perspectives.
These women showing that through dialogue and an open mind
there can be common ground.
And Liz joins us now from Los Angeles.
Liz, such a powerful conversation.
How hard was it to get these women to sit
down together?
And what do you think they learned and hope others
learn?
Yeah, Aaron, we're so grateful to these women for doing
this.
It wasn't easy to get them together.
Our producer Vita first reached out to this interfaith group
new ground a week after the October 7th attacks.
It took until now for these women to feel comfortable
enough to do this,
And Even so, at times during our conversation they were
pretty guarded,
worried that they were going to offend the other.
But at the end, it was actually really heartwarming to
see when they were outside,
they wanted to keep talking.
And they did. And it showed me.
It showed them. And they hope,
hopefully our viewers, the power of listening to someone who
thinks differently than you,
that ultimately we may all have more in common than
we might think.
Aaron.