If I could interject, you could equally argue that the
Irish
institution are cherry picking from international agreements.
That's what Rishi Sunak has claimed at the one minute
they want open borders,
the next minute they say that's not working out for
them.
So they're deploying police and it was their decision.
Paul Turner, you must admit it was their decision to
say they would not accept the terms of the Rwanda
deal and therefore the United Kingdom was not a safe
country. That was their decision.
Decision. That wasn't Rishi Sunak's decision.
And so now you could say they're being hung by
their own petard because they made their country singularly safe
in the eyes of people flooding over the border.
This is on them, not Rishi Sunak.
But in that regard, Martin,
I'd agree with you. I think that,
but yes, that is a consequence of what has happened.
But this is a consequence of the Irish High Court
finding that the UK is not a safe third country.
Much the same as this,
the Supreme Court in the UK found that Rwanda was
not a safe third country.
So yes, we have, the Irish have got there by
putting us in the same boat as Rwanda.
But you are right. This is
a consequence of, well, I would say it's a consequence
of the Irish
adhering more to their international obligations than we are and,
yes, making themselves more attractive to people that are very
desperate.
Yeah. And now Paul, suddenly,
when it's going down like a cup of cold,
sick with the Irish electorate who are absolutely sick to
the back teeth,
they've seen protests across Dublin,
We've seen arson attacks, We've seen ordinary families being branded
as far right by the leaders,
by the police, by the media.
They simply want to take back control of their borders
in the face of an overwhelming public revolt against a
very unpopular policy from the leadership.
They're suddenly acting tough because they know,
Paul, that there are elections coming up in June.
European elections and the the the pro strong control of
borders parties are expected to make safe gains as suddenly
the Irish institution realised they may have backed the wrong
horse.
That's one way of looking at it.
It's entirely reasonable way. Another way of looking at it
would be that the Irish are only in this position
because Rishi Sunak is seeking to undo the 2020 deal,
which would have meant that the UK could have taken
people back and the 2020 deal was essentially post Brexit.
So Rishi Sunak has scored a point,
if you like, by playing tough with the Irish.
But it's why should we play this
well? Why? Why should we take people back from Ireland
while we can't send people back to France?
If if these international treaties and obligations exist,
surely it must work both ways.
Well, Ireland's not France and there is a common border
and a common history,
very close one. And there is an agreement that,
as I say, is referred to as Operation Sonnet between
the UK and the Irish,
where to facilitate the Common Travel Area,
which we share with Ireland,
which we don't share with the EU.
And that's an important distinction.
We have this common travel area,
including the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland,
and in order for that to work well,
the UK and Irish governments reached an agreement which was
enforced by Operation Sonic,
whereby they could, irrespective of EU
laws and EU conventions, return people from both sides of
the border.
So yes, I can see at first glance why it's
good for the goose,
good for the gander. But
the UK and Ireland have a a very close and
special relationship and have reached an agreement which Rishi Sunak
is seeking to undo,
and I would say undo for political reasons.
Well, and I made my point that it was the
Irish Premiership decision to declare the United Kingdom wasn't a
safe country and some may argue Paul,
Paul Turner, you reap what you sow.
Nevertheless, thank you for joining us.
I'll pull you up on that,
Martin. I'll just pull you up on that.
It was the Irish cycle,
not the Irish president. I think they were very unhappy
with the high courts decision.
But but but the deputy the deputy premier blamed the
UK and presumably could have overturned that legislation or done
something about it.
They chose not to and now here we are in
a board a standoff.
Paul Turner. We simply have to leave it there.
We've ran out of time but thank you for joining
us.
Fantastic.