Joining us now is NBC's Hala Gurani and Mark Polymeropoulos,
former Chief of Operations in Europe and Eurasia at the
CIA and an NBC News national security intelligence animal.
So good morning.
This is really kind of significant what happened here, very
significant.
This is a very high level officer in Moscow.
And basically the Ukrainians have taken the war to the
heart of the Russian capital with that remotely detonated bomb
that was hidden, we understand, in a scooter.
So Igor Kirilov, 5354 year old, in fact he was
born in 1970, is the head of that unit that
you mentioned there of weapons of mass destruction, of biological
and nuclear warfare.
And the Ukrainians are saying that essentially his unit participated
in that Russian renovation of Ukraine in 2022 and was
responsible for causing a lot of damage and deaths inside
of Ukraine, and that they considered, therefore, this Lieutenant General
to be a legitimate target.
Now, we haven't had reaction from the Ministry of Defense,
but we've had an outpouring of condolence messages from various
politicians and agencies inside of Russia.
As far as Ukraine is concerned, as I mentioned, Jose,
they're saying this is a legitimate target.
This is somebody who was deeply involved in the war
effort inside of Ukraine after the invasion in 2022.
It's a very bold move.
This is something that is going to resonate with residents
of Moscow and across Russia as well.
We're not now talking about actions on the border areas
right on side of the Russian side of the border
with Ukraine, but we're talking deep into the Russian state.
And Ukrainians, of course, are all just in the next
few weeks waiting for what will president-elect Donald Trump's taking,
the fact that he's going to be taking office soon,
Will it mean for US support of the Ukrainian effort
against Russia militarily as that war grinds on?
Jose.
Hello, Gurani.
I thank you very much.
So, Mark, and how I was saying this is an
extremely bold move indeed, it was.
I mean, Ukrainian Security Service sources say that a scooter
laced with explosives was detonated, killing these two people and
in the streets of Moscow.
How did Ukraine pull this off and how bold of
a move was it?
So, Jose, you know, Hall is right.
This is an extraordinary operation.
You know, this is called a high value target, op.
In essence, it's a fine fix and finish mission.
What is amazing is this entails the Ukrainians having recruited
sources not only inside of Russia, inside of Moscow.
That's an agent network, that's individuals who would carry out
surveillance with a pattern of life of the target.
We would then employ the explosive and then call the
target out.
And so that is really an extraordinary breach of what
many consider a denied area.
And this is going to be deeply embarrassing to Vladimir
Putin, absolutely humiliating the Russian security services because it shows
that Ukraine has this reach, again, not just into Russia,
but into the heart of Moscow and against high value
targets, really an impressive operation, you know, in my old,
you know, business, but something I think that will resonate
very deeply within the Russian national security infrastructure.
And Mark, so the, the fact that it was essentially
a glorified IED, I mean, that's essentially what this was,
right?
And even though what what I think what makes it
extremely significant is, as you say, it was in a
denied area.
What do you mean by a denied area?
And how difficult is it to get something like an
IED into a denied area, right?
You know, there's thousands of Russian security personnel in Moscow.
Denied area means there is a pervasive, you know, security
state that watches everyone's moves, whether it's camera systems, whether
it's informants and for Western intelligence services and for the
Ukrainians as well, this is an area that's very difficult
to operate.
So by recruiting sources inside who can operate there, that
shows, you know, a level of penetration of Russian security
that I think is, is something that is that is
quite noteworthy.
And again, as you noted, they actually have to not
only observe the target, but they have to smuggle in
the explosives, then they have to detonate this.
This apparently was detonated remotely in a scooter, but that
means individuals on the ground.
So I think there's going to be a very severe,
you know, counterintelligence operation by Russian security.
The heads will roll as well.
And then the last piece is we are going to
see as, as Hala noted, kind of there's been a
a, a, a ferocious reaction from the Russians.
There will be some retaliation, probably, unfortunately, in the form
of strikes in Ukraine against civilian targets.
And, you know, what can Ukraine expect?
Is it, Mark, that a retaliation of this magnitude would
include more than just increased missile strikes on what they've
unfortunately been doing for years now, which is destroying parts
of the, you know, civilian infrastructure in, in in Ukraine?
But could it lead to maybe some targeting, pinpoint attacks
on Ukrainian leaders?
So, you know, the Russians have tried, but the Ukrainians,
of course, their security services are very good.
I think no doubt Vladimir Putin and and his security
apparatus would like to do this.
They just have not been able to.
So I think the default mechanism will be just kind
of more mass casualty events against the Ukrainians.
But let's also note one thing as well is that
the Ukrainians, you know, have been very worried, of course,
of the incoming Trump administration.
What they're going to do about the kind of flagging
European support this operation will be, will be celebrated inside
of Ukraine.
There's going to be some satisfaction there that they're still
in the fight.
And I think that psychological piece is going to be
quite important.
So what does that tell you, if anything, of the
what was the NKVD, what was the Soviet system and
what has become the Russian interior control and monitoring system?
So, you know, they're good, but maybe they're not that
good.
And, and that the Ukrainians are able to penetrate them.
It is amazing.
So this is this is the first, you know, the
most senior Russian military official, security official killed.
The Ukrainians have struck before several years ago, they they
took a shot at a Russian propagandist, ended up killing
his daughter.
But again, it shows that this all pervasive security state
in in Moscow might not be as as, as almighty
all powerful as we think.
And that is going to resonate inside Russia as well.
It's going to resonate inside the Russian security apparatus because
they now know that no one is safe.