So we just heard a lot from Michael Cohen's lawyer,
Danya Perry in her first interview since this trial began.
And here to break it all down is former federal
prosecutor Glenn Kirschner.
And Christy Greenberg is The Who is the former deputy
chief of the criminal division in the Southern District of
New York.
And she was at the courthouse today.
So, Christy, let me start with you.
We just heard Danya Perry's take on her client's testimony
over the last few days.
What did you think and anything she missed there in
terms of good and bad moments?
Well, look, as Danya said,
her client has has baggage.
He has enough baggage to fill JFK airport.
That said, I thought he did remarkably well.
I think people were really concerned about his demeanor and
how he would,
how he would conduct himself on the stand.
He was composed at all times.
He was respectful, he never got rattled and he was
generally consistent.
Whether he was answering questions on direct or answering them
on cross,
I felt like he really owned the moments that that
he needed own about prior pleas and prior conduct.
And look, I thought on the whole he was a
real juxtaposition to as you mentioned briefly
what we saw later today,
which was Robert Costello take the stand and really just
have a ton of antics.
So that made Cohen seem all the more,
you know, steady. I think before in the eyes of
this jury,
he provided important testimony. He was corroborated in many respects,
and his story generally makes sense and really fits with
what the other witnesses have said and what the documents
show.
So I think overall it was,
it was a great job from the prosecutors.
We're going to come back to that moment because I
know you were in the courtroom for at night.
But I do want to ask Lynn the question I
asked Danya,
and I understand why she didn't want to answer,
which is just if you're in this courtroom and you're
the jury,
I mean, how much of this is about Cohen's credibility?
That seems to be a core part of the defense's
strategy is pulling it apart,
which we all anticipated in advance of the trial.
Yeah, Michael Cohen is an essential witness.
There's no two ways about it.
And by all accounts, he,
you know, withstood something like 20 or 25 hours of
cross examination
and the reporting is that he never lost his cool.
Yeah, who would have thought?
I know you're going to talk about Bob Costello in
a minute,
but who would have thought another lawyer witness would all
of a sudden make Michael Cohen look like the model
of thoughtfulness and circumspection and decorum?
And yet now the story has become Bob Costello,
who, let's face it, is aligned with Trump and who
the jurors will associate with Donald Trump.
He played the fool in a way.
I've never seen a lawyer play.
I've seen defendants do that on the stand.
I've never seen a lawyer behave that way.
Yeah. I mean, this is an important point.
Michael Cohen is not a quiet wallflower.
Like, we've all met him and spent time with him.
So his demeanor is interesting.
All right, Christy, so you were in the room for
the exchange,
I believe, between Judge Marshawn and Robert Costello at the
end of the day-to-day.
It was dramatic to read.
I mean, he cleared the courtroom.
There's a lot of language I would use with my
children.
What do you. The big question to me is like,
was this all really worth it for the defense?
I mean, they were trying to get him to discredit
Cohen.
So at the end of the day,
was it worth it in your take,
in your view?
No. It was incredibly stupid because any concerns that these
jurors may have had about Michael
Cohen's credibility, I I think,
you know, got lost and overshadowed by just how
unprofessional and uncivil Bob Costello was to the judge.
Juries tend to like the judge in this case and
Judge Marshawn is again very civil,
very respectful of their time.
He he has a very gentle way in speaking with
this jury.
I I would expect that they like him quite a
bit and for this,
you know, for not only a lawyer who,
as Glenn said, I agree.
I I haven't seen a lawyer behave like this on
the stand.
But to put a finer point on it,
this is not just any lawyer.
He actually was also the former deputy chief of the
criminal division of the Southern District of New York,
which was my old job and Danya's old job.
So this is somebody who really should know better.
And to see him act with such disrespect to the
judge,
you know, rolling his eyes,
you know, saying ridiculous, absurd.
At one point he was trying to strike his own
answers to questions when he was talking over the judge.
It was just, it was a lot.
And I'm sure the jury really picked up on it,
really didn't like it. Now this is what they're thinking
about.
No, they're not thinking about Michael Cohen anymore.
They're thinking about this guy who,
as Glenn said, they're going to associate with the defense.
The defense chose to call him,
and now he is their witness and they have to
deal with the consequences of that.
It's a certain irony that the he discredited himself and
his effort to discredit Michael Cohen.
There's a lot packed in there.
So let me ask you.
I mean, there was, according to accounts of a number
of people in the room,
Todd Blanche was a little meandering.
It kind of was all over the place.
Now, the way that our colleague Rachel Maddow described it
as like in The Great British Bake Off,
where maybe you don't know all the ingredients and it's
like all leading up to the
closing statement, which means basically he needs to get these
things in the record.
But explain to me the strategy about
being a little bit all over the place.
Yeah. So when I read Blanches,
the accounts of blanches cross examination,
what came to mind for me now?
I was a career prosecutor.
Prosecutors don't typically make particularly good criminal defense attorneys.
Prosecutors deal in what is and what was Criminal defense
attorneys deal in what could have been,
what might have been, what should have been.
Let's engage in a little misdirection.
And he came across as sort of a frustrated prosecutor.
He didn't have a feel for cross examination.
I mean, cross examination is generally about get in,
make you 3 best points and get out.
When you go on cross examining somebody for hours and
hours and days and days,
you've probably lost, particularly if the witness is performing well
and the jury senses the frustration of the defense attorney,
they're going to start siding with the witness.
So I don't think he performed particularly well and I
think that's because he doesn't have a lot of experience
as a criminal defense.
Interesting thing. It was like apparently people shifting in their
seats and things.
I could talk to you guys for a lot longer,
but I, we have to go to a break.
So Christy Greenberg and Glenn Kirchner,
thank you so much both for joining me this evening.
I really appreciate it.