Welcome back, which will round up here in France 24.
I'm Mark Owen. The breaking news this hour,
Donald Trump convicted of all charges in the hush money
trial.
He was facing 34 felony counts over the payment of
money for the silence of a former lover.
Outside court, Trump has condemned the verdict as a disgrace,
saying that he's a very innocent man.
The jury nonetheless took a relatively short time to convict
him.
They deliberated for some 11 hours and had sections of
their
directions re read to them by the judge in order
to make sure their verdict and their deliberations were on
the right path.
Trump found guilty of all charges in the Hashmi trial.
This is WORLD ROUND up.
Thank you very much for joining us.
The trial of Donald Trump was already history making by
the very fact that it was taking place.
The verdict has now taken that to a higher level.
Donald Trump found guilty of all 34 charges against him
in what has become known as the hush money trial.
Money paid to a former lover.
He denied being the former lover of the
one time adult film actress Stormy Daniels,
but that money paid to her some
$130,000 in order to keep her silence over their affair,
which was indeed an extramarital affair.
Trump was scared of what would happen in terms of
his campaign to get elected in
2016. He was concerned that his
voters would perhaps be shocked
at the outrage committed by Trump,
and therefore, they tried to buy the silence of Stormy
Daniels
in terms of what this meant,
in terms of the the laws that were broken.
Having an affair isn't, of course,
a crime. But what was judged to be a crime
is the fact that he covered up so much of
how this was done.
And of course, the fraud element is how this was
all written off as a bona fide business expense.
Let's listen now to Trump outside the court.
This was a disgrace. This was a rigged trial by
a conflicted judge who was corrupt.
It's a rigged trial, a disgrace.
They wouldn't give us a venue change.
We were at 5% or 6%
in this district, in this area.
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial
that the real verdict is going to be
November 5th by the people.
And they know what happened here and everybody knows what
happened here.
The words of an angry Donald Trump after being convicted
of all 34 charges against him,
Some of those words are
defamatory, certainly in contempt of the court system.
And one wonders about what this means for his candidacy
as the presumptive Republican candidate going forward to the elections,
the presidential election in November.
Let's join our reporter at the courthouse in New York,
Pamela Falk. Pamela, good evening to you.
You're there where history is being made.
Give us a sense what is happening near you.
Well, first of all, you can hear around me,
the helicopters are were immediately dispatched.
Thousands of police are walking around and the security is
enormous
around the courtroom as you can hear some protesters calling
out for Trump,
some protesters joyfully celebrating the verdict.
Just now, the court gave a verdict.
Donald Trump is guilty of
34 counts, 34 felonies, each of which could carry a
one year,
A5 year term. Excuse me,
I'm sorry, a six year term.
But the judge has already indicated he doesn't think he
will have any jail time.
Nonetheless, he he the judge was did allow Trump to
leave the courtroom without posting any bond and the sentencing
will be in six weeks time.
This was an enormously fast
jury decision. A verdict with such a complicated case,
you heard the jury come in and ask questions,
try to get the instructions straight,
and then in the second day of deliberations delivered a
verdict on all counts,
guilty as charged. This will be
American president to be a felon.
Pamela, Donald Trump's reaction afterwards
as some of the things he said,
a rigged, disgraceful trial. Go ahead and tell us about
that,
right? He's
yes, he immediately came out of the courtroom.
He said this was rigged,
this was a kangaroo court,
that this was all cooked up in advance.
And that is what he is trying to tell his
supporters so he doesn't lose support because all of the
polls show some percentage dropping off of support for president,
former President Trump in his re election bid after if
he were to be convicted.
And he has now been convicted of all 34 counts.
And the the reason it's so serious is that these
are all felonies and they're the lowest felony in New
York.
Classy felonies. But it was a stunning decision in the
in terms of every single one of the
34 counts was guilty. And
that means that on July 11th,
you'll hear what the what the sentence is.
But for now, no question that President,
the former President Trump, will appeal.
There are two levels of appeal,
2 levels of appeal within New York,
the Appellate Division, then the Court of Appeals,
and then he can bring it to the Supreme Court.
But none of this is going to go on before
the election.
And ironically or surprisingly, the American Constitution does not bar
a felon from running for office or winning office.
So he is going to continue his campaign.
The question is, what is the impact for him and
for around the world?
And just to clarify, Pamela,
he's been convicted. But of course,
he will not be going to a prison cell tonight.
He's going to 1 presume 1 presumes one of his
apartments or a luxury home or a nice hotel.
Yes. And the the judge has already said during the
course of the trial that he didn't favor a prison
time for the reasons that the former president is #1
not a hasn't committed any prior crimes #2 this wasn't
a violent crime.
And #3 because he didn't want to politicize it and
make it more of an issue than it is.
And so there is no prison time.
There is some talk about some kind of financial
fines that he may impose,
but all of that will happen
in six weeks time on July 11th.
Right now, we don't know what the sentence is.
And it is unusual for a felon to be released
immediately without posting bond,
without any kind of released on his own recognizance.
The judge just let him leave.
In terms of politicizing things,
it's very clear that Trump was doing that himself,
wasn't he? He was referring to Joe Biden.
The administration has been behind this prosecution.
He talked about it being rigged,
a disgraceful trial, criticizing the the legal system in the
US,
Donald Trump blaming everybody but himself for his own misfortune.
Well, ironically, this case was not brought by the feds.
I mean, the federal government had the option of bringing
these cases,
these charges of falsifying record
in pursuit and in in furtherance of his interest in
falsifying the records, making them as a payment to a
lawyer,
not to the campaign in furtherance of his campaign of
2016.
The federal government decided not to press these charges,
this in New York State court,
this Criminal Court. And so the real question is
it, it does seem more legitimate in terms of the
eyes of
some of the viewers that this was not
a Biden decision to pursue.
Pamela, for now, thank you very much indeed.
You're at the place where history has been made.
Donald Trump convicted on all 34 counts,
absolutely guilty. Pamela, thank you very much indeed.
Pamela. There, Pamela Fog, our correspondent at the courthouse in
New York.
Donald Trump convicted on 34 felony counts in the hush
money trial.
With me in the studio.
Monty Francis, who's been covering the story from the beginning
for us here at France 24.
Monty, there are people just joining us who perhaps trying
to come to terms with what is going on.
Can we start again and just go through,
sure, the breaking news as we know it,
Donald Trump guilty. That's right.
So the this jury of 12 people spent about 12
hours,
11 hours and 43 minutes deliberating.
They came to a unanimous verdict finding Trump guilty of
all 34 counts,
felony counts of falsifying business records.
Now the jury, of course,
decides on guilt or innocence.
Then the judge is the one who decides the punishment.
The sentencing date has been set for July 11th.
We have learned a little bit more about about the
the counts here.
These 34 counts, 11 of the counts related to invoices,
12 of them related to Ledger entries and then 11
related to checks.
I believe nine of the checks were signed up by
Donald Trump himself.
And of course, as I
explained earlier, they had to find that all of these
documents,
each one of them was connected to the furtherance of
another crime.
Whether that was had to do with like election interference.
There were two others, like falsification of other business records
or the violation of tax laws.
They didn't have to come to unanimous
decision about which of those crimes it was,
but they had to decide that,
yes, he was guilty of another crime.
That's what elevated this to felonies.
That's what makes this so serious.
Another just some reaction coming in.
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson,
who appeared in court with Trump and spoke outside the
courtroom at one point during the trial,
is calling this a shameful day in U.S.
history. That's quite a statement coming from the person who's
third in line to the presidency.
And a spokesman for the Biden campaign is also coming
out and saying the only way to have their voice
heard or to keep Trump out of the White House
is, of course, to go and vote and that no
one is above the law.
And and that is really the latest.
You know, the thing that's really striking here is the
language that Trump used that we heard about this being
a rigged trial.
The real verdict will be on November 5th.
A disgrace. Our country has gone to hell.
That's that's what he said.
This all plays into sort of his overall message
and his campaign message about being a victim and retribution
and taking at one point during the campaign,
he has said I am your retribution.
And this plays directly into his his campaign strategy.
So we'll have to see how this effects him politically.
Mark, absolutely pause you. Let's hear a bit more of
Donald Trump's reaction outside the court.
And can I just say that we're showing this because
this has happened and it's a breaking story.
And of course, we don't have anything to counterbalance what
he's saying.
But this is a man who's just been convicted of
34 felony counts in the hush money trial.
So it's it's basically a a unanimous decision of all
the charges.
He's been found guilty. This is the reaction outside.
He's blaming everybody but himself.
We didn't do anything wrong.
I'm a very innocent man
and it's OK. I'm fighting for our country.
I'm fighting for our Constitution.
Our whole country is being rigged right now.
This was done by the Biden administration
in order to wound or hurt
an opponent, a political opponent.
Donald Trump having been convicted of 34 counts of
felony fraud in the hush money trial.
Then that's his reaction outside court.
Let's go to our reporter there,
Pamela Falk, who's been following the story for us on
the ground in New York.
Pamela, we heard Trump there basically calling it
a disgraceful trial. He was blaming the Biden administration.
He says the country is going to hell.
Millions of people pouring in across the border.
He's basically blaming migrants. He's blaming everybody.
He's trying to cite all manner of things making a
political point.
Pamela there. We lost the line to her.
So we'll come back to the studio and talk more
about the situation.
So Trump then really making a point
politically about every aspect of his campaign in this one
statement he makes outside the court in which he also
dismissed,
of course, the whole nature of the
the rule of law by saying that,
of course, it was a rigged,
disgraceful trial. He also took a swipe at the DA
saying
he was Soros backed. That's dragging in George Soros.
I I don't know where he's going with that one,
but can you give us some context on that?
It's hard to see into the mind of Donald Trump
there.
Indeed, I do have a a direct quote here from
President Biden
who posted on on X on his campaign
account there saying, quote, there's only one way to keep
Donald Trump out of the Oval Office at the ballot
box.
Donate to our campaign today.
So that is the response from the President United States,
Joe Biden, who is going up against Donald Trump.
You know, this is a race that many Americans,
the majority of Americans say they don't want to see.
They don't want to see Joe Biden versus Donald Trump,
But that's exactly the race that they're going to see.
We now have Donald Trump as a convicted felon.
This is really unprecedented. We don't know.
We've never seen this before in U.S.
history. We keep saying that over and over again.
But really, I don't think we can understate it.
It's, it's a much overused word,
unprecedented, but it really is the word for what is
happening right now.
If you are just joining us,
let me give you the breaking news.
Donald Trump,
former president of the United States,
it was already history that he was facing a criminal
trial.
History has been made times
34 because on all 34 counts against him,
he has been convicted. Donald Trump is now a convicted
felon.
He reacted with characteristic anger and hubris outside the court.
Here he is talking of a rigged,
disgraceful trial, blaming the DA,
saying he's a very innocent man.
He blamed the Biden administration.
What happened? He called all disgrace.
He said the country's gone to hell,
the legal system too. And then he went on to
blame various aspects of his political campaign in terms of
it was the
migrants pulling in, it's people coming in,
obviously breaking the rules, and he was actually having a
swipe at everybody without real control.
But basically, the theme, it's not his fault and he's
been a victim of the system.
That's what he's saying. The system,
of course, has found him guilty on all
34 counts in the hush money trial.
Let's take a listen now,
too. Donald Trump,
this was a disgrace. This was a rigged trial by
a conflicted judge who was corrupt.
It's a rigged trial. A disgrace.
They wouldn't give us a venue change.
We were at 5% or 6%
in this district, in this area.
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial
that the real verdict is going to be
November 5th by the people.
And they know what happened here and everybody knows what
happened here.
Let's go back to our correspondent Pamela Falk,
who's at the court. She's been observing all matters for
us.
Pamela, welcome back into the conversation.
A corrupt, conflicted judge was what Trump said.
Yes, yes. I mean, president,
former President Trump is angry.
He's calling it a
monkey trial. He has called it
just set up. He said Mother Teresa would have been
convicted on these charges.
But in fact, he has been convicted.
And President Biden also reacted from the White House saying
that this shows the conviction shows no one is above
the law.
Now, the conviction is separated into slightly different
areas. The 34 counts, 11 counts were related to invoices,
12 related to ledgers and another 11 related to checks.
But ultimately it is, it is impossible to understate the
importance and the significance in this political campaign of the
conviction of all
34 counts of Donald Trump on
34 felonies and making him in history the 1st president
or former president to be a felon.
And that is that is going to begin to reverberate
across the United States and across the world,
even though we see immediate reactions.
And of course, in six weeks time will be the
sentencing.
But no one really expects,
Judge Merchant has been very clear in this case that
no one expects jail time.
And in fact, there was no bond posted or released
on his own cognizance.
President Trump was allowed to leave the courtroom and make
those statements that you just quoted.
And so the IT was remarkable how fast in a
very complicated case that this jury came to this conclusion.
But it was unanimous and it was on all 34
charges,
on all 34 charges, which is quite phenomenal because there
was some debate as to whether some might
be judged as misdemeanours rather than
rather than felonies. But clearly it's gone to the most
serious
of, of the charges that it could be in terms
of its,
its, its gravity. Yes. And as it turns out,
I just, I just want to clarify that misdemeanors were
time dated.
So the misdemeanors were part of the overall felony.
But it could only have been felonies.
But they could have said no,
it was some of the charges,
but they said yes, he was guilty on all 34.
So 2
come straight to the point for people who are just
joining us,
Pamela, Donald Trump then convicted on all 34 counts against
him,
as guilty as could be in terms of how the
jury has seen this and the jury's evaluated all the
evidence.
They took over 11 hours to deliberate.
They've come back. They've they've sought advice from the judge.
What happens to Trump now?
Obviously he is not going to jail,
but what happens to him in terms of this conviction,
He will appeal, I imagine.
Well, he will appeal. There are three levels in a
sense of appeal in the US system.
The first level of appeal in New York is the
Appellate Division,
and then the second level is the Court of Appeals.
And ultimately, as long as he can show constitutional grounds
such as due process,
he could bring it to the Supreme Court of the
United States.
Now, there he might even have some kind of an
advantage.
But in fact, none of this is going to happen
before the election.
And in terms of the words that Trump said outside
the court,
Pamela, he was very contemptuous towards the court process,
very contemptuous towards the verdict and to the trial judge.
Indeed, he called him corrupt.
How does it get away with that?
Because yes, I can, I can imagine that being said
in a different context where it would end up as
a defamation trial,
a libel trial. How does Trump get away with this?
Well, of course, as you know,
there was a gag order that he violated during the
course of the trial.
He sparred quite a bit with Judge
Juan Murchon. And but at this point for him to
be able to to say that.
There, there certainly could be some charges,
but at this point he's he's convicted
of 34 felonies and therefore
I don't think anyone's going to care really much or
bring any kind of charges on saying that what he's
doing is trying to speak to his supporters to keep
them away from peeling off because he has been convicted.
And until he appeals, that will stay at least during
in the lead up and before the election.
And so it is unlikely that that changes at this
point or if it ever changes.
And so at this point,
he is trying to stem the negative of being convicted
and being the first felon in American history to be
a former president or current president.
And I strangely, and it is strange as a constitutional
scholar myself,
is that the US Constitution does not bar a felon
from running or winning public office.
So he can run and he can win regardless of
any appeals.
As you're talking to us,
Pamela, we've seen a vehicle spiriting Donald Trump away along
the freeway.
Pamela, I'd, I'd like to come.
You can hear it in the background.
I would like, I would like to come back to
you and ask you more about the,
the effect of this because
we're talking about Trump's supporters now.
Clearly his constituency is, is,
is one that is disgruntled in many ways about a,
a lack of rule of law in the country or
the perception of that.
It is a constituency of people who have a certain
religious standing and religious belief.
And, and might look upon some of the things that
Trump has now been convicted of doing
as being beyond the pale in terms of who they
could vote for.
Is there a sense here that this could be the
beginning of a crumbling of some support?
Well, of course, he has a great deal of religious
community support in the United States.
Now, as you mentioned in the lead up
to this announcement there, it is not a crime in
the United States to have
committed the acts of marital infidelity if he did the
alleged acts with either Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal.
And it's not a crime to pay to have the
stories buried.
The crime was the cover up was falsifying records,
calling them lawyers fees instead of saying these were business
expenses for a political campaign.
And that's what he was convicted of.
But that has brought into the courtroom and into the
into public domain the the actual facts of the what
he was trying to cover up,
which was the allegations of sleeping with
an extramarital affair with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal,
the Playboy Bunny. And so part of it is
it's now much more exposed to the public of what
he has done,
not only the acts themselves,
but in in in covering them up and making sure
that the publisher of the National Enquirer went along with
it,
bringing so many people into this
this this cover up that
it may very well on that basis,
as you mentioned, undermine and certainly
tarnish his candidacy. No question.
It does appear with the nature of the conviction and
what you've just been talking about,
there is layer upon layer upon layer of hypocrisy about
what Donald Trump is standing for at the moment.
Yes,
yes. I mean, the the part with Karen McDougal was
catch and kill was they bought the story from Karen
McDougal,
in other words, paid her and then made it and
had a story go to the National Enquirer and then
the National Enquirer kills the story.
That's why it's called Catch and Kill.
All of it is very devious and none of it's
a crime,
but it's exposed because of the enhancement of this act
of this misdemeanor by the fact that the president,
the former president was falsely and defrauded the American public,
as the prosecutor said, in order to make it look
like it was a
lawyer's fee instead of a,
an act that he was pursuing to cover up in
in advancement of his 2016 campaign.
And this is is his real victim powerless.
Sorry to cut across you.
Is this real victim then the the,
the, the, the candidate who lost the 2016 campaign?
Yes, I mean, part of the the real issue here
is that
the the general perception that comes out of this,
this trial, of course, Trump supporters have said they think
they're not serious charges,
they're not violent charges. They're
adding to what wouldn't be
a, a charges that would stick on or could be
brought on misdemeanors and then enhancing them with felonies.
They don't buy it. And they do believe that it
was set up to hurt President Trump.
The court went through all of the motions,
was very clear, went through all of the charges.
And the jury could have given him a pass,
could have said he was innocent and they did not
or even been
tied up. They there could have been one holdout.
There wasn't one of the 12 jurors,
7 men and five women,
all from different different walks of life to lawyers,
different backgrounds, all Manhattanites, which is what the requirement is
in this court,
all of that and they they convicted him.
And so it's it's hard for his supporters to say
there wasn't a process.
Pamela Faulk, journalist and lawyer I underline and constitutional scholar.
Thank you for joining us and sharing
your reporting of the story,
which was excellent, but also your analysis
of what this means in the greater wider context,
which is all important. Pamela,
I wish you, I, I don't mean to interrupt,
but I, I wish you could hear what's going on.
There's like crowds all around me
gathering in just because the verdict is so outstanding.
Thank you. History in the making.
History has been made. Pamela,
thank you for joining us here on France 24 to
help us live this story.
Pamela Fogg there reporting from the courthouse with Donald Trump
has truly made history, becoming the first former U.S.
President to be convicted to be a felon.
34 counts over the hush money case.
He's been convicted of all 34 of them.
Our coverage continues after a very short break.