All 16 electors that we've been devised by the governor
staff that we're going to be here to vote in
the Electoral College.
We've been checked in or out of here.
But these are these are the rest of the electors.
I understand, but it's the capital is closed.
That was outside the Michigan State Capitol December 2020.
That scene ultimately led to the indictment of 16 alleged
fake electors for Donald Trump in Michigan,
LED more recently to testimony in a Michigan State courtroom
on Friday.
This past Friday, as reported in The Detroit News,
that same officer who turned the fake electors away at
the door to the state Capitol.
He testified in court on Friday that he,
quote, had been interviewed Thursday by someone from the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and two US prosecutors from Washington,
DC Thursday, of course, was also the day a jury
in New York found Donald Trump guilty in a hush
money plot to save his campaign in 2016.
We now know that same day,
federal investigators apparently were interviewing Michigan law enforcement in a
sign
that there is an active federal investigation into the Michigan
fake electors scheme.
As part of those same court hearings where this news
came to light,
we also learned that the state investigation in Michigan might
not have reached its conclusion yet either.
A state investigator telling the court that the Michigan attorney
General's office still has outstanding subpoenas and search warrants as
part of what he described as an ongoing state investigation
into the Michigan fake electors.
He told the court, quote,
it's still an open investigation.
He also told the court at one point that investigators
were treating the Michigan State Republican Party headquarters as a,
quote, crime scene.
Joining us now is Craig Mauger.
He's politics reporter for The Detroit News.
He's been reporting on the fake elector news out of
Michigan.
Mr. Mauger, thank you very much for being here.
Appreciate you joining us. Hey,
thanks so much for having me.
So this is a sort of sprawling case.
There's 16 defendants and there's been a lot of court
proceedings already,
not for all of them,
but for most of them that are essentially designed to
decide whether or not the these charges are going to
go ahead.
It's a long process. It's a somewhat complex process given
the number of defendants.
What do you feel like have been the major revelations
from the court proceedings that you've covered so closely thus
far?
I think you've hit on a couple of them tonight,
that this is very much an ongoing probe.
The attorney general's staff is trying to figure out what
the guidance was that was provided to these 16 electors
whose signatures ended up on this certificate falsely claiming that
Donald Trump had won Michigan 16 electoral votes.
This investigation is ongoing. There's some element of a federal
probe that's looking at this as well.
That seems very much ongoing.
As you mentioned. The key thing here is the attorney
general's office has to prove as part of this case
to be successful,
that these individuals had an intent to defraud the public.
The question is, did these individuals have that intent,
or was someone essentially fooling them into signing this document,
not letting them know what the true purpose of the
document was,
and then turning around, taking their signatures and doing something
different than what they had told them they were going
to do?
That's the crux of all of this.
And if it's not their intent to defraud,
if it's someone else's, the question is whose was that
and why have they not been charged so far?
Right. And to have the
state prosecutors in Michigan, the investigators say we've got these
16 defendants,
but here's another 11 people who are unindicted Co conspirators,
including the former president, including his top lawyer include.
I mean it really they are painting a sprawling picture.
But the charges haven't necessarily followed all of the allegations
at this point. That's Craig.
Part of the he's not wanted to talk to you
is that I was really surprised by this revelation that
you reported in court on Friday,
that there does appear to be an ongoing federal investigation
here, a federal investigation on top of what's going on
with the state.
Do you have any sense from what's been disclosed in
court what the contours might be of that federal investigation?
Well, the police captain who revealed this and everyone in
the courtroom was surprised by this.
The defense attorneys were surprised.
Even the judge kind of used the word to surprise,
to talk about this statement that was made by the
Michigan police captain.
All of a sudden kind of out of the blue
is kind of a traditional line of questioning.
Who else have you talked to?
And this police captain says,
oh, I talked to some people yesterday from Washington,
DC Everyone kind of froze for a second.
What do you mean you talked to someone from Washington,
DC yesterday? He said that this interview focused wholly on
the electors.
This was about the electors.
This wasn't some other issue.
This was an interview that lasted some amount of time
talking about these fake electoral votes that these people brought
to the doorstep of the Michigan Capitol on December
14, 2020. He said that they didn't ask about specific
individuals.
He was read a list of some names that they
asked about this person.
He said no, it was a must have been.
From what I could tell from his testimony,
it must have been kind of overall what happened when
you were at the doorstep,
these people came to the door,
you answered what happened,
and it was
FBIFBI personnel and federal prosecutors.
And it's now that they're asking him these questions.
Wow,
it's amazing. It's very important to keep your old tape.
When you play tape of something that happens,
hold on to it for longer than you hold on
to your tax records because you never know when the
FBI will finally follow up on the crime that you
aired on your TV show.
Craig Mogger, you've really helped us and the whole country
follow the nitty gritty of these of these stories as
they've unfolded.
And they seem to be unfolding in more and more
important ways.
So we're really grateful for you.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Craig Mogger, politics reporter for The Detroit News.